Tara (00:51):
Welcome back to the Art of Estate Planning Podcast. I am your host, Tara Lucke, and I'm so thrilled that you have joined me to listen again today.
(01:02):
This episode is actually not for our diehard estate planning lawyers. This episode is a little bit different and it's for our estate planning-curious lawyers. So I guess I'm talking to you if you are dabbling in a little bit of estate planning on the side of your main practise area, if you are in a practise area that you feel might not be sustainable for your next chapter and you are curious about estate planning and looking for a new pathway or yeah, if you've ever just kind of wondered what it's like being an estate planning lawyer, this episode is for you and it's all about why I think estate planning can help you unlock hidden revenue in your law firm and how to get started. So of course I love this topic. As you know, at the Art of Estate Planning, we provide estate planning, education, precedents and mentoring.
(02:06):
So this is right in my wheelhouse and I just want to share the joy of practising in estate planning. Hopefully you can listen and come with me on this journey. I want to invite you over on the dark side where we talk about dying and not being able to wipe your own ass every single day. Look whether you are desperate for more freedom and relaxation in your life and career, or if you just want flexibility so you can live your best soccer mom life. I think estate planning could be the golden ticket to getting a new lease of life in your law firm. Now, why do I want more estate planning lawyers? Firstly, I don't gate keep when I know something is good and I don't just want to keep it for my inner circle. But secondly, estate planning is booming. Now we have a bit of a lag in receiving quality statistics, so most of our statistics sort of come from around 2018, but what we do know is that from 2002 to 2018, there was 1.5 trillion of wealth transferred in just that 16 year period, and it is growing exponentially.
(03:28):
In one year, 2018, parents in Australia left inheritances of 52 billion to their children just in 2018 alone. And that's not all the prediction from the Australian Productivity Commission in their research paper from 2021 called Wealth Transfers. And their economic effects is that the value of inheritances will quadruple between 2020 and 2050. So we are right on the cusp of the biggest wealth transfer in history. So what's $52 billion times four? Because by 2050 that is what is going to be transferred under inheritances and estate planning every single year. I can't do that maths on the spot, but I have done it before and it is $208 billion by 2050, which is only 25 years away. I can barely compute that number of zeros, but I know it's a lot. Right?
(04:43):
Let's look at some more statistics. This is a really current statistic from September 2024. How much money do Australians have in self-managed superannuation? That's $1.02 trillion. So I'm looking at this, it's like 12 zeros, 13 figures in one at September 2024. All of those funds will eventually need to be redistributed under estate planning and when it's self-managed super, they will need legal advice and support. This industry is booming. We also have some statistics from 2017 a Charles Sturt University in combination with the University of Adelaide made a report estate planning in Australia and they surveyed Australians and asked, do you have a current and up-to-date will less than 25% said yes, hand on heart. I have a current will and it's up to date and just a will. It's not an estate plan, it's one component of a comprehensive estate plan. So we don't know if they've got super norms, we don't know about their enduring powers of attorney, their letter of wishes, entity succession.
(06:14):
So 75% of Australians back in 2017 needed help with their estate planning. What really concerns me is that estate planning as a whole, it needs a facelift big time. We need more estate planning lawyers who are approachable and relatable and care. And how do I know that? Because in that same 2017 survey, they interviewed parents with minor children and over 60% of those parents with little kids reported that they did not have a guardian in place for their kids. No plan if both of them died. And if there is anything that I know gets people motivated to take action in relation to their estate plan, it is protecting your little kids. That's the issue that keeps people awake at night. So why haven't these people with little kids, the people who need an estate plan desperately, why don't they have this sorted? I think it's because estate planning needs a facelift.
(07:26):
Our industry needs fresh talent who are approachable and passionate about helping their clients and who look at and approach estate planning in an entirely fresh way. So if you're listening to this podcast, I think that could be you and your talent and energy and fresh perspective could really help our industry. So that's why I think it's worth giving estate planning some attention. But what's in it for you? Okay, firstly, we know there's enough work going around. What we also know is that estate planning is the type of work where it's rarely urgent. I mean, sometimes it is urgent and you are rush to the hospital to do a bedside wheel, but most of the time it's not urgent. They don't care if it takes a few weeks, a few months, they'll probably sit on it for ages. We don't have these big, all consuming matters that take over our lives.
(08:31):
It's really easy to pace. So most of our estate planning lawyers are a lot happier. It's incredible for work-life balance. I want to talk to you about one of our members at the Art of Estate Planning, a lawyer called Tyrone Dutt and he's the principal of Empire Law. And for many years, for about 10 years, he was a litigation gun. And a few years ago he left litigation and set up a sole practitioner firm specialising in estate planning, not even estate planning litigation, just estate planning. And I asked him why, because I'm fascinated by people who are established in their specialisation in law and then go and do something else. And he said, I left litigation "because I wanted more time with my family, and estate planning was the thing that made that possible". Another lawyer who you might've heard on this podcast is Lidia Vicca and she is the principal of Vicca Law.
(09:34):
And yep, she was a litigation lawyer too, working in top tier firms, crazy lifestyle. And Vicca Law, which is her firm that she has since set up is exactly the same as Tyrone's story specialising in just estate planning. And what I love about Lidia as well is over the course of her firm, she's had three children, she's had three babies, three sets of maternity leave, and her firm has supported her the whole way through giving her the flexibility and freedom to take those breaks, work at her pace to accommodate what's going on in her life. And this is what Lidia said to me, "I was working crazy hours in litigation and once I had my first child, I realised it wasn't sustainable. Estate planning gives you the ultimate flexibility. You don't have to choose between earning good money and having flexibility. You can have both." and I love it. I just think that sums up the beauty of estate planning services so perfectly.
(10:42):
The other thing is that estate planning is incredible for building trust and connection with your clients. If you are feeling disillusioned with the legal industry, estate planning could be the fresh air that you need. It's a way to use your law degree, but fill up your cup and you get a front row seat into the lives of the most incredible clients. You really do get to know your clients' values, their businesses, how they live their life. You get to look at their finances, it's incredible and they trust you with the most important decisions, building their legacy of love for their family and their life. It is an absolute honour and a privilege. And so if you are sort of feeling sick of being a lawyer and all the tension, all the paperwork and not getting that joy, maybe estate planning will fill up your cup.
(11:43):
Jonathan Naef is a lawyer at Balance Family Law in the ACT and he started his career as a family lawyer, as you can tell from the firm name that he is a founder of. And he has built over the last five or more years up their estate planning division at Balance Family Law. And he's been a long time supporter of the Art of Estate Planning. And when I talked to him about that experience, he said, we had clients who, well, we tried to refer them on outside of the firm and they just said, no, I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to do it with you. And especially if you are in a practise area where you already have a deep connection with your clients, estate planning is the perfect compliment. Like family law, you already know nearly everything about them, their asset situation, their family dynamic, how they like to approach problems.
(12:46):
So it's not much of an extension to help them with estate planning. You are already up to speed and so much further ahead, a new lawyer who has to sort of learn what this client is all about. So I'd say family law, personal injury law, if you've got commercial clients who you have a long standing relationship with, estate planning's a natural compliment. The other thing that I love, and it might sound quite boring, right? But I actually think it's the key to all of those benefits I've just mentioned, and that is estate planning lends itself to systemizing automation and delegation. It's very predictable. You can incorporate a lot of conditional logic and most matters when we're talking about the upfront estate planning follow a really natural predictable pathway. So it allows you to create systems and workflows, which then means you can get really profitable on your matters.
(13:50):
Also, when we have the vanilla matters, it's very rinse and repeat. You've got the systems, you've got the automation, you go through it. Yes, obviously we are customising our matters and our advice to meet our specific client objectives and their nuances, which is great because if it was just rinse and repeat like why do you even need a lawyer and why do you need a real person doing it? But you are not there on the boring procedural stuff. And you do know as the litigation lawyers, Tyrone and Lidia said to me, who knows where a litigation matter is going to end up. It's a real choose your own adventure. Whereas with estate planning, the timeline is you can usually be set, the steps need to happen and it's just a matter of playing around with the edges of each of those steps. So look, don't take my word for it.
(14:47):
Here's what Lidia had to say: So the best thing about estate is that you can easily develop a process, procedures, precedents, and there's a natural flow. And as I've continued to become more experienced, estate planning has become more profitable because I've streamlined everything compared to litigation, which is dictated by the parties. There's no workflow, who knows where it will end up. Estate planning is predictable and you know how much you're going to earn at the end. It's fantastic. If you've ever been tempted to shred your time sheet and say goodbye to time billing forever, you are going to love estate planning because it is perfect for fixed pricing, value pricing and capturing your expertise and value. Most of our clients are retail moms and dads and they do not give two hoots about six minute units. They don't care about your time sheet. They just want to know what the end price will be and how much they need to save up for.
(15:51):
And because we are dealing with matters of the heart, your ideal client understands the importance of the work that you are doing for them. Like for a parent doing their will, it is literally the last act of love for their children that they will ever do. So the value is inherent. I also want you to think about what it costs to acquire each new client. Do you have a marketing budget for your firm? How much time are you putting into networking events, creating social media marketing content? And what is the opportunity cost of that? You might already have clients who are waiting for you to help them with estate planning. If you look at your entire client database, would they love to hear from you to know that you could help them with their estate planning? And if you could increase your average customer spend by between $2000 to $5,000 of clients that you already have in your practise management system and solve a problem that they need and are ignoring, what would that do to your bottom line?
(17:08):
So I mentioned Jono before at Balanced family law and they started out as a pure family law firm, but they have built up their estate planning division of their firm. So I think it represents nearly 50% of their fees now. And Jono said this all happened after Covid. So Covid forced us to start offering estate planning and once we did, we saw how much demand there was and how profitable it could be. At first we just tried to offer a bit of everything, but once we just zeroed in on estate planning as our compliment to family law, we saw massive growth. Isn't that incredible? I just love it. And obviously if you know anything about family law, every client who is going through a relationship breakdown needs a new estate plan. They don't want their ex being their executor, their attorney, if there's a medical issue, they're financial controller, they don't want their ex having the say about funeral issues, all of that if something happens to them amidst the relationship breakdown, especially before any divorce has been finalised, that ex is still probably in their documents or the official spouse.
(18:30):
So they all need to get an up-to-date estate plan where they are nominating the people that they choose, their friends, their family members to take care of them for them. So it is just a no brainer when you're in family law to add estate planning as an additional service. Clients don't want more lawyers in their life, right? If they've already got a connection with the family lawyer and that family lawyer can solve obviously the family matter and also sort out their estate planning. It's just a huge value add that you can deliver to your clients without increasing any stress on their part. So I want you to ask yourself, how would it transfer your firm if you could make an additional $2,000 of profit for each existing client? And maybe you think I'm exaggerating with this $2,000 profit number, but at point obviously it's not going to be like that from day one, especially if you're re-skilling and training.
(19:37):
But I do want to share you an inspirational story from one of our member superstars, Bernadette Duell of Great Southern Wills. So she's in Albany, Western Australia, I think I've said that right? Albany, that town has a population of like 40,000 people. It's tiny and incidentally it's beautiful. If you watch Bernadette's Instagram, you'll just be blown away by the beaches there. So Bernadette gave me a, oh, I just have to apologise. Bernadette is Bernadette Duell forever in my mind, but she recently got married and her name is now Bernadette Terry. So look her up as Bernadette Terry, and sorry Bernie. Okay, so yeah, Bernadette Terry shared with me a typical breakdown of a vanilla, straightforward estate planning matter and the work involved. So in her team, she's got a secretary and some gun paralegals and a few lawyers. So basically when she breaks it down, she's like the secretary qualifies a query.
(20:43):
So a client makes an approach, the secretary qualifies and works out if they're just shopping around or if they're an ideal client based on certain criteria, opens the file, sends the initial questionnaire, and then books in the initial client meeting. So Bernadette's model is that she does at the time of recording anyway, she does a free client meeting and converts them and gets them to commit to the matter in that first meeting. And she has a really high conversion rate, like 80 or 90%. I know all of this actually because we talked about it as a group in the TT Precedents Club a while back where she wanted to hear from other lawyers who are not doing free meetings and are charging for their meetings and what their call to actions are and their conversion rates. And we had an incredible conversation with firm owners around Australia with everyone sharing what they do.
(21:40):
They charge up front, they just have a free phone call or the meeting they have to pay, but it's redeemable on the package price, all types of options. So I know at the time of Bernadette sharing this that she talks about fees in that client meeting because if you've met Bernadette, you will know she is so personable and really good at selling. So she backs herself that if she's in the room with them, they will not walk out of there thinking they don't need to do their estate plan. So 15 minutes for the secretary to do all that, the initial meeting might go for an hour 90 minutes. And that's also because with the questionnaire completed in advance, Bernadette's got a fair bit of material about them, she spends another 15 minutes or the lawyer spends another 15 minutes putting together the file note using the art of estate planning file note templates over to the paralegal.
(22:39):
They spend about an hour doing searches, document reviews, getting in touch with an accountant and financial advisor if there is one, getting all the information. The lawyer spends 15 to 30 minutes finalising the estate planning strategy and the flow chart diagrams showing where everything's going, and then brief the paralegal and the paralegal spends 30 minutes drafting up the testamentary trust wills. Now this is for a couple matter. So there's obviously efficiencies where there's two people who are preparing mirror image wills. They use the art of estate planning precedents. We've got the LEAP integration. That's the system great Southern Wheels use and they also use our Look Clause library as well for drafting because our precedents are so dialled in with the user nodes and the drafting and the clause library. And because of obviously the incredible talent of the paralegals at Great Southern Wills, the lawyer spends about 15 minutes reviewing and settling the documents.
(23:42):
Paralegal then might have another 15 minutes to make any changes, finalise them, convert them to pdf, send them off, email them and also get the box ready. So Bernadette at Great Southern Wills, they have this incredible box that they give to clients, which is their will keepsake box, and it has Bernadette's beautiful Letter of Wishes workbook, which you've probably heard us talking about before, which is actually a resource that she has made available for purchase for art of estate planning lawyers. It's incredible. And it also has I think a pen and it's got beautiful ribbon and maybe some chalkies. I'm not sure what's in it exactly anymore, but it looks so good. Just a physical keepsake and copies of all the finalised wills and everything. So the loved ones know where to go. Bernadette will then have another meeting, which is an hour for signing, and then let's say the secretary comes back for 30 minutes of wrapping it up, scanning, save custody, finalise that last letter, send the super nominations to the super fund, the powers of attorney to ate for registration and close up that file.
(24:59):
So all of that, that's like your predictable workflow. They all have to follow that same methodology. Now, yes, the advice within might change, yes, your meetings might be shorter or longer. Maybe there's a few follow-ups for clients who are dragging their heels, but they all basic, every law firm will be able to sit down and tell you the steps of the workflow for their vanilla and typical estate planning matters. So when you look at that, that's like three and a half hours of the lawyer's time on a matter, the secretary about three quarters of an hour and the paralegal about a bit over two hours at the time of recording Great Southern Wills charges $4,700 including GST for a couple to prepare their testamentary trust wills, their super norms, all their power of attorney documents, the letter of wishes, workbook, all the meetings, everything. So that's a fixed price and I don't know how fast your maths is, but if Bernadette is spending about three and a half hours on that, her hourly rate is about $1,300.
(26:08):
So that's pretty incredible, right? And it's like that because she's invested in precedents, she's invested in training her team, she's got expert knowledge in testamentary trusts and estate planning. And the estate planning matters are predictable and follow that natural flow. So it's just a really joyful, low stress, straightforward process where you can optimise and automate the boring stuff like word processing. And you know what Bernadette gets to spend most of the day just talking to incredible people about how they want to craft their legacy for their loved ones and their family, what's not to love. So if you didn't realise this is not your grandma's estate plan, this isn't the post office will, this is not a DIY will. The key is really looking at a tool called testamentary trust. So I love testamentary trusts, right? It's the cornerstone of the art of estate planning business.
(27:13):
So part of this working so well and getting all of those benefits is being able to offer testamentary trust to clients who need them. So the reason that we talk about testamentary trust so much is because they just offer so much value for every day for families. So let's say you've got a young couple, Dan and El, and they walk into your office or they call up and they ask for their will. They are probably thinking in their head that they're going to leave with a basic will. They just want to leave everything to each other and then to their three little kids when the kids turn 21. And if the kids are still minors when they both die, Elsa's sister Ana is going to be the trustee. You can also empower them to make a choice about whether they want to go down that basic path or if they want to consider a testamentary trust will.
(28:13):
So instead of leaving everything to each other, they leave it actually to a trust established in the will and the survivor of that couple will manage it for themselves and their children. Now because the survivor, the parent who survived is in charge of that trust, it's still going to look and feel like their money, but they get a lot of benefits over the simple basic will. Let's say in our couple scenario, we pick on Elsa and we say, "Elsa, I'm so sorry darling, but you've died". Dan, after a suitable morning period meets his new spouse, Louise, and they enter into a new relationship. Now when Elsa died, she had a million dollars in life insurance and super. Let's have a look what happens to that inheritance. Now Elsa will tell you she really wants that money to go to her kids, right? That's her end goal.
(29:11):
The legacy she wants to leave if she's died, she at least wants that money to be there to help them when they're ready to have families of their own with the basic will. That million dollars has just gone straight to Dan, right? And if Dan dies after he's entered into this new relationship with Louise, that million dollars where it ends up depends on Dan's new will if he even bothers to make one, right? And he now has a lot more competing claims on his estate. He's got a new wife. If he and the new wife have a baby together, suddenly he's got older children and a new baby. That new baby's got their whole education ahead of them, their whole life, 18 years of being maintained, his new wife Louise, needs to be maintained at the standard that she's grown accustomed to and especially if we've got the children that Dan and Elsa had together approaching 18 off on their own lives, getting jobs, it's going to be real.
(30:16):
This is a big tough job for Dan to make enough money go around. Not to mention Dan and Louise, they've got to live somewhere. Dan's probably put that million dollars from Elsa, intermingled it in their money together, contributed into the equity of their home, upgraded their house, maybe paid off the mortgage. So it's really hard, even if Dan wants to ring fans, that million dollars for Elsa's children, he might've already mingled it in. It doesn't make sense to just have it sitting there when it could just be that human nature is it's just going to be put into that house With Louise Dan, he's got a risk of a challenge against his estate. He's got the obligation of trying to just make enough money go around. It's really hard. So Elsa is lots riding on whatever Dan decides to do. Compare that with a testamentary trust will instead of Elsa's million dollars just going to Dan, it goes into the trust.
(31:17):
It's separate. There's a separate bank account, there's separate financial statements. It needs a separate investment strategy so that money in the testamentary trust stays in the trust. Even if Dan dies, Dan's will that he makes or doesn't make after Elsa dies, it's irrelevant. Elsa does not give two hoots what Dan does with Louise, because she has set up the succession plan for her kids when she dies, she's not relying on Dan. Dan can go and live his most beautiful, happy life with Louise and also wishes him all the best. She doesn't want him mourning and having a terrible life as a sad old widower. But Elsa, with a simple change of her will with the testamentary trust, will she has already set up the plan for them through the trust. So when a Dan dies, the money stays in that trust bank account. In those investments in the trust name, her sister Anna comes in and just manages it for the kids until the kids are old enough.
(32:28):
It's protected from a family provision application. If Dan ultimately dies from Dan's new spouse, Louise and any children, there's a bit of an asterisk there if it's in New South Wales because of notional estate, but everywhere else it's protected. And even in New South Wales, it means that it's a lot harder still for it's not automatically part of the challengable pool. Let's look at another scenario. So Elsa still dies, poor love. Dan does meet Louise, but they're only together for 10 years and then Dan doesn't die. He stays alive, but Dan and Louise get divorced. So under that basic will, Dan's got that million dollars, it's intermingled probably in their home, even if it's just in a separate bank account or separate investments or whatever he's decided to do, it's automatically part of the relationship pool. If Dan and Louise separate it's part of their relationship property divisible between the parties, so it could just be paid out to Louise if Elsa had a testamentary trust will.
(33:35):
It's not part of the property pool, it's not the owners of proof shifts. Louise has to argue to try to get it into the property pool. Of course it's a financial resource, but is it property divisible between the parties that Louise will ultimately end up owning directly? No, not necessarily. We've rigged, fenced those funds in a separate trust. It's not intermingled into their family home. We can clearly see this asset came from Elsa for the children, it's been separated and ring-fenced this entire time. And if Louise thinks she can benefit from it, the onus of proof is on her. The other thing I love is about the tax don't glaze over with tax, but how your inheritance is taxed is radically different when we're looking at a basic will and a testamentary trust will. So the minor children, and in this case Dan and Nelson has three minor children, they can get up to $22,000 each year each tax-free.
(34:44):
So if Dan invests the inheritance in the testamentary trust, the first $66,000 of income that the inheritance generates is tax free money that can be used to support the children, pay their school fees, pay their sporting fees, contribute to their household maintenance costs. They don't get that money directly. It can be applied towards their benefit compared that to the basic will. Dan still gets the million dollars, but then he has to pay tax on that and if he invests it, he pays tax on the income it generates and then he has to pay for the kids' schooling and sporting and maintenance with after tax income like we all do now. So testamentary trusts make your inheritance grow so much further and they are life changing for families where you've lost a breadwinner. Also, let's look at the worst case scenario. Dan and EL actually died together and their kids are little when they come of age and turn 18 with a basic will, even if the will says they get their inheritance when they turn 21.
(35:55):
The rule in Saunders and Vautier here, and we've done a whole podcast episode on that, so go have a look. That rule says they can demand their inheritance once they turn 18. There's nothing that a loved family member can do to stop them from wasting their inheritance. The rule doesn't apply to testamentary trust. The testamentary trust wheel protects the children from blowing through their inheritance. We all know kids who've bought a Ferrari or blowing it through overseas travel or drugs or worse, and Dan and Elsa can appoint people who they trust to manage the trust until the age that they feel the kids are ready. So testamentary trusts are the key to increased pricing, increased profitability, value pricing, and your lifestyle. So if you are liking what I'm putting down, if you're picking up what I'm putting down, here's three things that I think you should ask yourself to see.
(36:57):
Is it worth pivoting and upskilling into estate planning? So if you have lots of clients who are individuals or access to decision makers who are individuals, if you are willing to invest six months in upskilling, setting up your precedence and your systems and realistically being out of your comfort zone with support, and if you want to cement your position as your client's trusted lawyer, I really think estate planning could be for you. So the question is where do you get started? And obviously I love this topic and we have put together a solution for you. That's our whole purpose at the art of Estate planning. Tyrone and Lidia and Jono were all people that I had the absolute privilege to support with this transformation.
(37:50):
Here's what Tyrone had to say, "You made it really easy for me having not just the precedents, but the whole ecosystem around it made it that much easier. Essentially, you just laid out a game plan for me. You said, here are the precedents, here are the letters to your clients, here are the flyers for your clients. And then after that, all got built out. What else can we do with estate planning? Here are the clauses that you can put in your powers of attorney. Here are the tools you need to amend trustees. Here's how to prepare corporate powers of attorney. I think it could have been so much harder, but it wasn't because I discovered the TT Precedents Club and the Art of Estate Planning."
(38:31):
Our goal at the Art of Estate Planning is to make your estate planning firm run as smoothly as possible and as profitable as possible so that you are free to focus on the things that will fill up your cup. Like whether it's spending time talking with clients instead of pumping out documents or just having more free time for yourself and your family.
(38:54):
Whatever it is that you need to prioritise, estate planning should long-term give you more free time and a less stressful career in law. So we have a three-step method at the Art of Estate planning to support you to get up and running with your own estate planning service. Firstly, we focus on solving the practical. So we have our testamentary trust precedent packages. Our works package has everything that you need from obviously the legal documentation through to managing your risk with of risk disclosures, agendas, decision trees, conditional logic, as well as communication to clients. So flyers, everything you need to sell the value. Then we also help you with the pricing. So we help you with training on what to charge, how to work out your unique value proposition, how to work out your break even price, price list templates, how to communicate the pricing, all of that.
(40:00):
So you've really got everything you need from a practical perspective to engage with clients. Then we help you deepen your technical expertise. So we have a number of courses and resources here. If you are brand, brand new to estate planning, the College of law has a really good introduction to estate planning training, which I think would be a really good start like Lidia and Tyrone and Jono, if you have never done estate planning besides your own estate plan, if you've done even that, then maybe I'd start with the College of Law first. And in the show notes we've got our estate planning resources list and the College of law courses are included in that list. So go and download that and then once you've got those fundamentals under your belt, go deeper with us at the Art of Estate Planning because Testamentary Trust is our area of expertise and specialisation.
(41:03):
So we've got our online course Testamentary Trusts, the Essential Guide for Australian Lawyers and our TT Precedents Club membership. So we will hold your hand in the TT Precedents Club every week. We will meet on a Thursday at generally one o'clock Australian standard time, and you can submit all your questions and I will answer them for you and the group will answer them for you. We have over 200 members in the group who will support you and go through it and we will draught clauses for you. We will answer questions for you. We're basically there to support you, whether it's legal, estate planning, technical, whether it's about compliance, about things like what are we doing for safe custody, how are we binding our documents? Whatever it is, how are we doing meetings when we're sole practitioners and we need a second witness? Whatever it is, our community will support you.
(42:03):
And yeah, that's our methodology for getting started. So I just want to wrap it up with something beautiful. Lidia shared with me and I had a big call with her and Tyrone and Jono in preparation for this episode because I'm just absolutely fascinated by people who have the determination and courage to get outside their comfort zone and make a change. And especially talking to Lidia and Tyrone and Jono where they are five years down the track after making that leap of faith, it's so inspiring and I didn't even realise that they had this whole past life in other areas of specialisation because they are just doing incredible work for their clients when they show up in our community, they bringing so much expertise and knowledge and a fresh perspective.
(43:01):
So I am just so intrigued by it, and this is one of the things Lidia shared in our conversation, "I couldn't have done it without you. It's made me so incredibly comfortable to advocate for testamentary trust and to work through scenarios with people. If I get something that's hard, I know that you guys are there and it is such a comfort when you're by yourself to have that support. It's such a nice community. So I know you don't want to get up and be like, oh, join the TT Precedents Club, but you should Tara, because that is the biggest thing and I couldn't have done it without you."
(43:38):
Oh my gosh, I actually didn't read that last paragraph properly. I did not have to read that out loud. But yeah, come and join us in the TT Precedents Club. It's just absolutely incredible. So I'll wrap that up. If this has really piqued your interest, download that estate planning resources list. It has a lot of starting points.
(44:00):
Get in touch with us if you want more information of how you can really get started. And I just want to say I think you are incredible. You're so courageous, and please don't hold yourself back if you think that estate planning could be you for you. If you've got an interest in it and curious about working in this field, you can upskill your fresh perspective will be so valuable and we've all got really long careers. So stay in the legal industry, try something out, and we are all here to support you at the Art of Estate Planning.
