Tara (00:50):
Thank you for tuning in to the Art of Estate Planning Podcast, and today I am thrilled to bring you a very special guest.
(00:59):
She is sitting here right next to me after Law Biz Con, and I am really excited to bring you Lidia's story. So our guest today is Lidia Vicca. She is the principal of Vicca Law and I really think you're going to feel very inspired and you're going to love Lidia because she is just a most wonderful person, but I think you're going to be really inspired by her journey to running her so practise firm in estate planning. So welcome Lidia.
Lidia (01:31):
Thank you. Thanks Tara.
Tara (01:33):
I am so excited to have you on. And the first thing I wanted to talk to you about is how you found your way to estate planning, because you didn't start out in estate planning when you started as a lawyer, did you?
Lidia (01:46):
No, I took a very traditional legal path. I was a clerk and a large commercial law firm, did a grad programme and I was in commercial litigation. So when I had my first baby in 2020, I was like, nah, I can't do big firms. I can't traditional went out by myself and I really started to estate planning as a way to be a kind of full service firm. Did a few wills, mostly for my lawyer friends that didn't have wills, which is crazy. And then I got really complex kind of matter and thought, oh my gosh, this is actually interesting. This is actually something that I can dig my teeth into. And so that's how I started in estate planning.
Tara (02:28):
I just think that's so incredible. So 10 years in top tier firms as a litigator, firstly, I was so surprised to hear that about you because you were just such a natural estate planner and I actually, I always think of litigators as being so tough and ball breakers, which I mean that as a compliment, but yeah, that's incredible for you to just have the courage to go, actually I'm going to step away from something that I'm an expert in and start fresh.
Lidia (03:00):
Well, you just haven't got on my bad side. And I'm sure my husband will tell you that I am a ball breaker actually as my mom will and my kids, I'm sure. But yes, I love commercial litigation. I still do commercial litigation. It's probably now, but 50% of what I do is com lit. I will always love it, but I love it because it's a challenge and it's a lot of strategy involved. But I was surprised when I started to do estate planning, how there's also a lot of strategy involved in it. I had my will done and I used that as the basis, my blueprint of being an estate planner, but there's a lot more to it. And so as my firm has grown, I have really moved more towards estate planning, estate admin a little bit, but sometimes they're a bit annoying. And so mainly estate planning where everyone is currently alive, which is good.
Tara (03:58):
Yeah, so it makes beautiful sense for you to draw on your litigation experience and do estate litigation as well. So you're focusing on upfront estate planning, estate litigation, and a little bit of commercial debt.
Lidia (04:12):
That's right, yes. I would say in terms of succession law, the majority is estate planning and doing wills and TT wills day in day out. I would love to do more estate disputes. I've got a challenge to a will at the moment, which people are like, oh my god, someone's challenging a will. I'm like, yes. Isn't it awesome? Someone's telling, not my will people, not my will, someone else's will. Public trustee will. Shocking, yes, but I still love disputing, but I dunno, I just find that estate planning provides me a really nice balance.
Tara (04:44):
And yes, speaking of balance, you're thick in the juggle right now. So you started your firm when you had your first son, but you've had two more babies since running your own firm, right?
Lidia (04:54):
Yes, that's right. So to take it back a step a little bit, I started my firm when I was five months pregnant with my second son. And that was really a desire, as I said before, of not wanting to go back to a traditional firm. So I had him in my belly, started the firm, started doing that, and then I had my second, well, my third child, you lose track once you get to the third. You've just lost track. My third daughter six months ago. So I've had two babies in four years and I already had the original, so I've got three, I'm only working part-time hours. So I am visibly available to clients three days per week, work a lot more obviously as most law firm owners do, but visibly available three days. And that's just purely for freedom. I just wanted absolute freedom and I wanted to be able to be there for my kids.
(05:44):
My husband works and that's the path that we've chosen. So it's been nice for me to be able to choose my own path essentially. Yeah, that's so powerful. And we were talking before we started recording about you are in a season of life now. I've got two kids, I don't know how you do it with three little ones, but once they're all at school, you'll be able to take the firm wherever you want. But at the moment it's serving your lifestyle needs, which I just think 10, 15 years ago, I remember sitting in my office at Eagle Street looking at the river going, I've made it, but what's the end game? Because how is this sustainable? And I'm going to have to walk away from everything I've done and do I have to leave the law even to be able to earn a good living and use my career once I start having children.
Tara (06:46):
So I just think it's so incredible that you've made a firm that works for you and where you're at with your lifestyle.
Lidia (06:54):
And I also think, and I guess this is being very vulnerable, that I was in commercial litigation. I was on the Banking Royal Commission for nine months, for example, doing that, flying in, flying, absolutely. I was doing big stuff with big ticket companies and federal, state government, big stuff. And when I started my own firm, there was a lot of imposter syndrome of can I do this? And people might, maybe, this is my impression, comm lit is like sexy, right? You're going to court, you're hanging with barristers, you drinking a lot because of your hours. And I did look at estate planning as like, oh, it's a bit boring, but my estate planning clients are so nice. It's so easy. Most of them are very nice and easy. It could just completely different to lit. I love lit. But yes, there was a lot of imposter syndrome about whether I could do it. That was really big for me.
Tara (07:53):
It sounds like you were basically living suits in real life. Every young graduate ambitious lawyer's dream and you throw it all away for a state planning in the suburbs. I love it. I absolutely love it. Lidia, another thing I just want to say, and it's such a credit to you for all the work that you've put in. Well, I'll say two things. Firstly, if you want something done, ask a pregnant woman to do it. Just unbelievable. But secondly, I didn't know this about you. I had thought when you came into our TT Precedents Club community and the way that you were showing up and advanced questions you were asking and the guidance that you were generously sharing to our members in the community, I had just assumed that you had been doing estate planning from day one. So to have then hear that actually you've reskilled down path, I just think it's such a credit to you for the work that you've put in.
Lidia (08:59):
Oh, that's very kind. I did do Wilson Estates and PLT. Thanks, Tara. Yeah, I mean, I have worked really hard. I won't deny it. That sounds funny to say, but I have worked extremely hard and I want to do that because as a lot of soul practitioners, I'm terrified of making a mistake. I'm terrified of making the wrong choice for my clients, advising them of something wrong. It terrifies me. And so I am very lucky, and I've said this to Tara previously for having the TT Precedents Club to elevate my learning so quickly. I recently asked in a very popular women's lawyers Facebook group, which shall not be named about upskilling in estates disputes, and there is nothing available, there is nothing available for me to do that, and that's going to make my life quite difficult. I think in the future. There's some great, I know some people, but having TT Precedents Club, I was really able to just get the precedents, understand them very easily, and have a whole network of people like yourself.
(10:05):
I mean, we never knew each other. We might've passed each other on Eagle Street at one point, but I didn't note Tara or any of the wonderful people in the club. It's so incredibly nice, but it is a hard work. I think that when people looking at estate planning, don't think it's easy because it's not easy. You can be simple and you can be boring if you so desire basic wills, we like to call 'em. You can be basic. No one wants to be a basic b, but it takes a lot of work. But it's so worth it because I just love my clients come to me with these crazy scenarios or crazy things that have happened or weird relationships, and you're like, wow, I really have to put my legal cap on. And I'm so thankful that I have the knowledge and the resources to put on my legal cap.
(10:56):
And honestly, when you tell people you do wills, oh my God, family barbecues. I just got a bag from a small plug for VXT, A bag from them that said, I'm billing you for this conversation. I'm taking that everywhere, everywhere with me. I mean, I didn't bring you on here just to make you keep plugging the teeth. I'll take the compliments.
Tara (11:18):
Absolutely. But I do want to say thank you so much for the way that you show up in our community because you have made so many connections and you always generously share. And that's what makes it such a great place. So I do want to say thank you and yeah, I'm here like, oh, anyone can switch over to estate planning. And yeah, you're right. It is work. And I think a lot of people listening, you care so deeply about the outcomes for your clients, so you don't want to be doing something that's outside from a risk perspective what you should be doing. But is it been five years that you've been running the firm now?
Lidia (12:00):
It's been four years.
Tara (12:01):
Yeah. Great. So in four years in the span of your career, you've gone from novice, but for the PLT programme through to, I'd say that you're an expert on it now, and you've kept applying yourself and obviously committed, but you've also had two lots of maternity leave in that and the pressure and the admin and burden of setting up your own firm. So it's not like you've been hitting the books the whole time. I just think that's incredible.
Lidia (12:32):
That's very kind of you, Tara. It is. I really do enjoy it. And I guess also when you're a solo, I feel like it's isolating and it's not isolating. I love it. I love the freedom of it. Tara and I just did a session. We talked about what we love about our work, and it was the freedom not answering to the men was my thing.
(12:54):
So it has been really good in that aspect. And when I was thinking about doing this podcast with you, I was also thinking about how people look at us and I think they look at us at Law Biz Con like, oh, look at the cult, the TT Precedents Club Cult. And we are a cult. Yes. But there's also a lot of room for disagreement as well. And one thing that always sticks in my mind, I tell clients this story all the time, is one hot seat. We were talking about injuring power's attorney, and we were talking about when they should kick off. And everybody on that call there were like 35 people said that they do them immediately. So during power of attorney, everyone assuming on here knows that it's, you're alive, but someone's making decisions for you. And everyone on the call said, no, no, no we tick immediate. So once it's signed, they can have immediate power. And there's ways that you can safeguard it by keeping the original, all that kind of stuff. I don't do that. I always do it on incapacity as determined by a medical practitioner.
(13:54):
And I always tell people this story that are on the call and how my view is that we should have autonomy and people should have autonomy. And it's really important to me. And most of my clients, quite honestly agree with me. And I've had some clients tell me stories about how it's worked for them, but I really like how we just have such all different thought processes and put together different ideas because if it was me by myself, I wouldn't really think about it. When you're a solo, you're just by yourself and you're just going your own way. But it's good to be challenged. And that's what I like about our cult, that we are challenged by the cult, but it's helped me really think about my practise in the way that I do things too.
Tara (14:44):
That's such a cool, I was like, where's she going with this? Has this been like a disasterous hot seat? Yeah. I mean, that's such a cool example, right? Because that could be a debate question and I could argue for either side, and I think as you said, it ties into your values and maybe who you have in your inner circle who you can appoint as your attorneys. And yeah, I think you're right.
(15:12):
I wouldn't say anybody is right or wrong with how they approach that, but I think it's important that you as a practitioner have thought deeply about why you are making a recommendation in a particular way when you'll make exceptions to that.
(15:28):
And it's not like, oh, this is how we do it at the firm that I've always been taught to do, or my partner supervising partner does it that way. So that's how we have to do it. And I think, yeah, that is what is so incredible about perhaps being a more experienced lawyer and then adding in a specialisation because you do.
(15:51):
And you would've known all about powers of attorney in a different context through your corporate work, and I presume that came up in the Banking Royal Commission perhaps. So you're bringing a real depth of knowledge to how you practise.
Lidia (16:08):
One thing that I love being going from a big firm, because when I was in a big firm, you're very tied, right? You're very tied to what you can do. You can't really give advice, you can't help people. And the one thing that I hated more than anything was watching family and friends get this crazy advice.
(16:28):
They'd go see the local suburban lawyer, and I appreciate 'em saying this as the local suburban lawyer now. And they'd get advice, and it used to drive me saying I couldn't do anything about it badly. And so when I started my firm, my big thing was helping middle income earners and small business owners find quality and cost effective legal solutions because there seems to be a really big gap I think in there. I think you would still find in estate planning, a lot of practitioners that are just rolling the arm, as they say in cricket, a partner taught me that one, rolling the oven. I use it all the time. And then you would get people that are really thinking outside of the box. And for me, I just want to help people. We all do that. That's why we're lawyers. Fundamentally, we want to help people.
(17:17):
And that's my favourite thing about my firm, seeing people seeing these little problems and coming up with solutions. This is like a very side note for you, but I have a friend, he has a class action firm. I went to a stage where I was just sending him class action ideas constantly all the time. And my number one class action idea, which he thinks isn't going to get up, but anyone can steal this. I think it's the benefit is the superannuation being taxed on non-dependent. I have not had one client come to me and I've told them that, that knew that, right? And it's discriminatory. I think it's discriminatory on the basis of marital status because if someone had a spouse, then it's not taxed. So I just love thinking about these little tidbits and things and really seeing issues in the community that you don't get to see when you're stuck.
Tara (18:11):
The point about the super, and I know you said you are just a suburban firm, which I actually wouldn't class you as, I would call you a boutique specialist firm. It's like, I think top tier service and experience at a boutique delivery access point is how I view it compared to the, I mean, it's suburban, they can be anywhere, but let's pick on the suburban fellas who haven't done an air CPD thing. They do one CPD cruise a year overseas or something, and they're just not up to date. And the clients come in and the paralegal is pumping out the will. They get a will as they leave the meeting, and that's it. No one's talking to them about the super strategies, see a financial advisor to do a withdrawal and re-contribution strategy or yeah, we've got to direct the super to the death benefit dependence, and it's really scary.
(19:12):
And yeah, how do you prove negligence for someone just not doing enough? That's outside my scope, but yeah, you guys are thinking so deeply and so comprehensively beyond the, let's just pump out a basic will.
Lidia (19:26):
I recently had a client, her husband had passed away and he had a business and it was in a joint venture, and she went to see a firm out of the state that did her will, but I think that they were also kind of financial planners or something. Not one person had spoken to them about business succession, and that was really the main income for their family was her husband's business. Not one person had spoken to them about what having a company meant, having a trust meant, and then also the complications with the joint venture. I was the first person that had spoken to her about it after he had passed away. I don't even know if they had a conversation about it at all. And to me, I mean, we could go.
Tara (20:15):
But that's kind of negligent in a way.
Lidia (20:18):
I think that it's really holistic, and a lot of people will come to me and they will be, I charge a price for reviewing company constitutions and trust deeds, and people don't even understand their own structures. And when I go, well, actually you've got six separate entities here that you're in control of, they don't even realise it's crazy to me. But slash I also love it because it makes them think about business succession looks like for them, and it allows me to use my brain to figure out a really great solution for them. Yeah, I just love that part too.
Tara (20:59):
I can really see your passion for this shining through. I love it. Yeah, as you said, you went from the sexy Suits type of law to the estate planning.
(21:10):
I'd like to switch gears a little bit. So you also have a podcast, which I mean yes, super mum, your little one is six months old. I don't know how you're doing it all, but it's absolutely incredible. And I guess I just wanted to ask you to share with the listeners how you are using and leveraging the podcast, maybe how are you managing to do it and then yeah, the role that it's playing in your marketing funnels or client journey. I think that's really incredible.
Lidia (21:42):
So I started what is now called the Vicca Law Podcast at the beginning of 2024. I used that podcast to inform all my marketing in my firm, so I am a talker. Okay, love talking. As you can tell, Tara know I'm a big talker, and so I knew that that was my strength. So my idea is every month of my podcast, I have a different theme.
(22:08):
So last month's theme was a state administration essentially. Then I every week have a topic, and how I do it is I record it in one night. There are only 10 to 15 minutes, and I just bang it out one night. I call it Marketing Monday, and I usually do it on Monday nights. And then my VA, who's in the Philippines, who's just my marketing, she only focuses on my marketing. She takes my podcast, she transcribes them into article, sorry, transcribes them. Then she pops them into GPT, oh, what is it? ChatGPT? Yeah, sorry, chat. GPT. She creates articles from them for my website. They get SEOed by my SEO people, and then she creates all my social media from that podcast. So I have one piece that I do, and then it informs all my marketing for that month and gives me really good direction.
(23:01):
I don't get a huge amount of people actually listening to my podcast. And I am probably doubting that there's anyone out there searching probate in the podcast world. Okay, this is probably not going to happen. What I use it for is informing my clients, particularly around testamentary Trust is a big one. I have a lot of people ask me about testamentary trust and then I refer them to my podcast, and usually the podcast more than the article, we have a flyer in the TT Precedents Club. I send it, but I don't think anyone reads it. I think they're more interested in the podcast and now a year in. So it has taken time to establish, I have people saying to me, oh, I saw you have a podcast on that. Oh, I listened to your podcast on that. And that has been so gratifying because of what, I dunno who's listening, but also it's making me an authority in that space and something so small.
(23:55):
I will say I did a podcast on Test Metric Trust the beginning of last year. I did an article from that, had a client call me off that article, and she has become one of my biggest clients. I did a very complex estate plan for her. I've then done some dispute work for her. I've done some commercial leasing work for her. She's become a huge client, and I just think that was just off one podcast.
Tara (24:16):
That is so incredible to hear. Lidia, you sound like a marketing genius, but no, I mean, and I think this is coming through in this recording, but if you ever meet Lidia, you have just got such a personable approach to the way you communicate. And I have listened to some of your podcast episodes too. I was just like, oh my gosh, howie, this is so incredible to see on top of everything else that you're juggling that you have got a podcast to, and it really shines through. And so I am not at all surprised that it is converting clients because yeah, if they're like, oh, I just want to find out a bit more about Lidia, or they listen to one thing because it's referred to them, but then the way that podcast players, they keep popping up more episodes. They are going to know and trust you after listening to this. And then the question for them becomes not who is going to do my estate plan? I'm shopping around for price and all of that. It's when is Lidia going to do my estate plan? So I just think that's so clever.
Lidia (25:34):
Oh, thank you. I mean, I've made mistakes as we all have in marketing. If you have your own firm, it's inevitable that you're going to make mistakes. And so it's taken me a little bit to get here, but I really enjoy doing it.
(25:48):
And that's the main thing. I just was never a writer when someone's like, write an article, write a case note. I could not think of anything worse in my whole entire life. And the thing about it is that people want someone personable for their estate plan. They don't want Mr. Doomsday or Mrs. Doomsday over there talking about death. They actually want someone that they can relate to and is personable because it makes them open up and if they open up, then you can do a better job for them.
Tara (26:19):
I really feel like you've found your calling in estate planning. So where are you based?
Lidia (26:24):
In Aspley, In Brisbane, I have my office.
Tara (26:28):
Great. And so you're just working in Queensland?
Lidia (26:31):
Yes, just doing Queensland work.
Tara (26:33):
Cool. I just think I want people in who's listening to picture where you are and know about you because reach out to Lidia, obviously, and if you're in the TT Precedents club, you will already know Lidia, but follow her social. So you're on Instagram, right?
Vicca (26:53):
Yes. My Instagram handle is @viccalaw V-I-C-C-A-L-A-W. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. Instagram is my place though. I really like that platform. So if you want to get to know me, that's the best way.
Tara (27:06):
Incredible. Lidia, I'm so grateful for you sharing your story. Is there anything else that you want, well, you've got you time on the mic. Is there anything else that you wanted to share? Any funny stories? Sorry, no pressure to come up with a funny story of course, but I didn't want to just wrap it up on you.
Lidia (27:27):
You know what I think is funny, I was telling someone this the last few days, is that I haven't had any of my clients die yet. So that's going to be my new marketing slogan. If you want to stay alive, get your will done with us.
Tara (27:41):
Definitely you need to do a podcast episode on that. You're like, oh, are you feeling like you're going to jinx yourself superstitious about getting your will done? I've got a hundred percent strike rate. Nobody dies yet.
Lidia (27:55):
Maybe that's just like my time, but I'm definitely going to tell the oldies about that when they come through.
Tara (28:02):
Oh, I really actually think that's a rite of passage too. When a client dies, as you said, it's such a personable thing and you get invested in knowing your clients and their lives, and it is really sad. So I'm really pleased that you haven't had to go through that yet, and I hope it's a long time before it happens.
Lidia (28:24):
I'll probably be calling you and tears, Tara, but I think it's also, I guess this is one thing as well, this is a long term relationship that you're building with people. I think people think estate planning is like you get your will done and it's done, and I imagine for some people that is the case, but I make it a habit of contacting my clients every year saying, happy anniversary on signing your will. And they love the idea that I do, that you can really build long-term relationships with clients, and I think that's really fun. Then you see their lives grow and they see my life grow.
Tara (28:59):
I'm sure they're all so invested in your little ones and your babies as well, and they've seen you being either pregnant or postpartum. Before we started, I was wrapping this up, but I've got one more thing I want to say. So before we started recording, you were like, oh, the thing I'm going to be working on is systems and processes, but it sounds like you have got so many incredible systems, and I mean, you've nailed the podcast and marketing process and the annual review follow up and check in. I think that is actually really advanced and sophisticated for a small firm.
Lidia (29:37):
I actually never thought about it that way. I'm always that person that's setting up the modem or I set up the tv. My husband's terrible at that. I've always been that techie person, and with all this AI and new technology I have just put it in the two hard basket I really have, which is embarrassing for me because I think I'm quite young. So I want to use the tech to automate my systems and make my life even easier. I have some really good precedents and systems in place. But next step, 2025 goal automation. Yep.
Tara (30:10):
Okay. Oh, that sounds incredible. Well, we'll be getting you back in 2026 to tell us how it all went and everything that you learned, and it sounds like we've literally just wrapped up at Law Biz Con half an hour ago. So it sounds like that might've been one of your biggest takeaways from the conference.
Lidia (30:27):
Oh, yes. I was just telling people at Law Biz Con that I've been on the hamster wheel for six months, the last six months having a baby, and I feel very reinvigorated actually. So this is a good time to have a podcast feeling really good and really positive about the good changes I want to make in my business and making my life easier as well.
Tara (30:48):
Oh, you are incredible, Lidia. I can just see your firm going from strength to strength. It's so inspiring at the moment. You've got a really young family and you need it to serve particular lifestyle goals, and you have done the hard work to make that happen, but I can see you've got so many ideas and when you're in a new chapter of your life where you've got more time and resources to commit to it, yeah, it sounds like the sky's the limit. So thank you for sharing where you're at in your journey with your firm now. I can't wait to keep watching it, and I also just want to say thank you for everything that you do and contribute to our wonderful community.
(31:32):
You are always so generous and provide such. You're just beaming at me right now. You've just provide such a beautiful, positive, friendly energy, and we are all so grateful for you. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Lidia (31:46):
Thank you so much, Tara, and really she is the TT queen, everyone. So that title will never be gone, but thank you so much for everything too.
