Tara (00:50):
Welcome to the Art of Estate Planning Podcast. I'm your host, Tara Lucke. I'm thrilled you've joined us. In today's episode, I am bringing in a special guest, Caralee Fontanelli.
(01:03):
We've had a few conversations in the TT Precedents Club Facebook group recently where lawyers who have been running their estate planning firm for one or two years have been sharing that they're feeling overwhelmed and on the path to burnout. And we've been having some great conversations in that group and especially some of our more seasoned law firm owners sharing some wonderful wisdom. But my first port of call when I hear about law firm owners not living their best life in their firm is Caralee's scalable law programme. So I wanted to bring her on so you could all hear from Caralee herself about what they do in the programme to help work out if you're also feeling like you're getting to the point of burnout or overwhelm to see if it's for you. So this is a topic that is quite close to my heart.
(02:05):
If you've listened to my why episode number 69, you'll remember that I have experienced burnout in my job in my career when I was an employed solicitor and it's an awful place to be. And I really don't want anyone in our community to have to go through that if we can avoid it. Not only is it just a terrible thing to go through, but there can be longstanding health consequences and the road back to recovery to regaining your joy and your vibrancy and passion for the law can be a really long one. So if you can avoid ending up at rock bottom and really feeling burnt out, then it is really worth trying to take some action and get things on track as early as possible. So I really hope that you get some inspiration or an idea of some of the levers you can play with to try to get your firm back to a place where it's really serving you.
(03:20):
So whether you want to make more profit or have more freedom and that's what this is all about. We want you to have your best life as a lawyer. It's a win-win for you, for your health, for your family, for your purpose, but also for the clients that you serve, because if you're at your best, then you can serve your clients the best way as well. So I hope you get something out of this conversation today with Caralee. I am so thrilled to welcome our special guest today, Caralee Fontanelli of Scalable Law. My good friend, she is such a thought leader in the legal industry. Welcome, Caralee.
Caralee (04:03):
Hi.
Tara (04:04):
Now I twisted your arm to get you to come on to this episode because we have been having a conversation recently in the TT Precedents Club. One of our members has raised this with the group and I thought there's no one better to share their wisdom and guidance on this topic than you. So before we dive into that, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself, your background? Because you have a fascinating background from cookbooks to multi-branch law firms to running the scalable law programme. You've lived like a million lives it seems.
Caralee (04:44):
I have. I have. I've done all sorts of things, but in the law space I came to the law in 2008 and then took over a practise that was existing and not doing very well. And from there, really kind of struggled and felt really lonely in that journey trying to work out probably similar to the person who you're chatting to and who the conversations with, really lonely. Who do you reach out to? How do you get help? And it just seemed like everyone else was having heaps of success except me, attracting the right team members, growing the business, getting quality work in the door. It's so hard to get quality work in the door. There's a lot of people that are tie kickers and you spend a lot of time wasted on phone calls with people who are never going to engage. And so in those early days, it was just really, really tough and lonely.
(05:41):
So that was back 2012 and we didn't have groups like the TT Club or Scalable Law where you've got coaches for specific areas of practise or for specifically growing a law firm. And anyway, over a period of time, I finally kind of got there and cracked the code so to speak and really worked out what the difference is between that struggling practitioner not knowing how to grow the firm to being able to grow a firm not only successfully financially, but also in terms of lifestyle, because it's absolutely not a badge of honour to be burnt out and to be putting out fires all the time. And I feel like so many law firm owners do find themselves in that position. And so when I kind of worked out what that looked like not to be running it like that and I started really running my firm from a place of being the CEO, I thought I really need to help other people do what I've done and people where I was that person previously and so that you can actually create the firm that you really wanted to and that you thought about creating in the first place, which is a firm that gives you usually more money than what you were making as a senior associate or special counsel and freedom, more freedom than what you were getting when you were employed and on someone else's clock.
(07:14):
But what we often find is that as law firm owners is that we are paying ourselves less than we were and we're working harder and on weekends and putting more effort and time in than we ever had so it actually diminishes our freedom. So I help law firm owners now really gain clarity around what those issues are and work out how we're going to move past them and create the firm that they really want.
Tara (07:39):
I mean, you've just hit the nail on the head about why I brought you in today because in our Facebook group for the TT Precedents Club, there's a discussion going with a few of our members who have hit some really wonderful milestones, their first or second year in business, which is just huge because it takes so much courage and bravery to step out of a firm environment and that safety net and to go and make your mark on the world with your own firm. So I applaud anybody who takes that big leap of faith, but they're reflecting on these milestones, still very early days in business and just asking the group for some guidance and wisdom because they're saying, "Look, I'm working six or seven days a week. I'm working really long hours. I'm on my laptop at night, staying up late and I feel burnout coming.
(08:42):
I don't know how sustainable this is. I'm losing the joy of why I started this in the first place." And they're asking for tips from the other members in the group and the group has given them some wonderful advice, but my advice was you need to talk to Caralee because this is what she's doing every day with law firm owners. So yeah, Caralee, you're in this situation. Where do you even start to turn things around? Well,
Caralee (09:11):
I think the first thing is to know that you're not alone in the situation because while it looks like other people aren't struggling, we look to social media and we look to other people's businesses, I help hundreds of law firms and they all have their own struggles and it's great being part of a group where there's a lot of vulnerability and transparency because it can help you feel not alone and then you can really focus on what needs to happen at hand. I think if you're feeling really alone, you can feel like you're a failure or it's not working and that diminishes your confidence to keep moving forward and that's really the worst place to be, right? Yeah, getting yourself in a position where even if it's in a programme like mine or Tara's or a free sort of group online, anything where you're connecting with others, it's so important.
(10:08):
So that's the first thing. So there's so many issues at hand and it totally depends on the business. But if you're talking about a solo practitioner who's only been out on their own for a year, the first year is going to be your toughest. You're dealing with a lot of different issues. One issue might be getting enough work in the door and enough quality work. So sometimes when we're not getting enough quality work in the door, what we do is we take on anything and everything and that often doesn't serve us because then we're becoming a generalist and when it comes to marketing, it then becomes harder to attract the right clients. So we just continue to be in that sort of zone where we're attracting the wrong clients, which is exhausting because everything is clunky, you're only one person, you can't practise multiple areas successfully and I think too many law firm owners in those early days do try and do that.
(11:08):
So that's something to consider if you're attracting the wrong types of clients and doing the wrong types of matters that aren't really in your zone of excellence, it's going to be really clunky and hard to produce the work. And also you can attract clients that really don't bring you joy and burn you out and you're taking a lot longer to do work, you're not charging properly for that work, which I'd like to talk to that point a little bit more. And so yeah, keeping in your zone of genius. So if you are, for example, a wheels and estates lawyer, don't go and do other work because you're desperate to get the work in the door. Really just hone in and focus on the work that you really want to attract. And even in the wheels and estates category, there's so many different niches to be looking at.
(12:01):
And so I don't know about you, Tara, but the people that I see in my programme that are the most successful and do the best in terms of profit freedom and not having burnout are the ones who really hone in on a specific type of client and specific type of work. So I most certainly see that in clients that I help that are in estate planning, for example, if they're just focusing on that, it just makes it a whole lot easier and a smoother flow of work. So that's the first thing that I would say because not only is it helping you when you're actually doing the work and the efficiencies of doing that work, but also when it comes to marketing the work and attracting that exact right client that you want to attract.
Tara (12:50):
That makes perfect sense, Caralee. And I do see that too in terms of our state planning lawyers, because you might be getting to this, but in terms of building your systems and automation, which can bring you a bit more efficiency, it's much easier to have the tunnel vision and just do that for one stream of work. But if you're doing a bit of estate litigation, a bit of estate admin, lots of upfront estate planning, you've got three completely different sort of areas that you need to build the systems for. Yes. Chances are you haven't got systems for any of them and also your billing methods are different for each of them. So you've got different rules about how you approach all of them. And so as much as it can be hard to let go of one of them, it is worthwhile stepping back and just looking at the analytics in terms of where the fees are coming from, what you can build the best systems in and making like a strategic decision about it rather than an emotional one.
(14:04):
I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'm all for niching down.
Caralee (14:09):
Yeah. And so in the niching down component, if we back up right to the beginning, which is client flow. So some people, especially in the beginning, really struggle with client flowing and you'll get some clients ringing, but they might not be the quality clients that you're looking for. And the reason that you're not getting quality clients that you're looking for is that you have not been specific and really made your offer to a specific target and the public gets confused. They think lawyers can do everything. They don't understand that there's specific lawyers for specific legal problems, but when you're speaking to the right avatar in the market and you're speaking to those issues and they can feel like, "Oh, that's me, she's for me, or that firm is for me, " you're going to attract that higher quality client who's ready to pop and engage rather than really attracting no one.
(15:11):
So a really good saying is "confused minds don't buy". So if you're confusing your market because you're not being specific about what problems you solve, confused minds don't buy. They're not going to ring you or they're going to ring you and it's going to be the wrong type of client and then you feel like, "Oh, well, I may as well take it because at least it's some money in my bank." And then you're creating those inefficiencies. So that's one issue around the niching. And then the second issue, of course, is exactly what you said about having the systems and the efficiencies in place. And then your person and your group, they talked about burnout and just working crazy hours. The thing is, and this is what I sit down when you do an onboarding call with us in scalable law, we sit down and we look at your firm as a whole and one of the things that lawyers don't realise when they're employed solicitors where they work in a silo and all they have to worry about is their matters.
(16:14):
That's all you worried about when you were an employed solicitor. But now you've got finance and accounts, you've got operations and admin, you've got legal service delivery and you've got marketing and sales. You've got all of those components, plus you're the CEO and the visionary of the firm, which often law firms aren't spending time thinking about the vision or any of that part of the business. So you're spreading yourself so thinly as a solo practitioner and even as we start building a team, you can still be sitting across the heads of all of those seats concerning yourself with operations, finance, legal delivery and marketing. And so this is where it becomes really tricky because I think people expect, I was billing $40,000 at the last firm that I worked at a month, but why aren't I doing that now? Why can't I do that? And the reality is that as a law firm owner, you're not just doing legal service delivery, you're running a business and there's so many other components to running a business.
(17:25):
So you can't expect that you're going to be able to build the same as an employed solicitor. It's just not viable and you'll find that you're all over the place, one minute you're in accounts, the next minute you're in operations, the next minute you're in legal service delivery or putting out a fire or something else and then you're worrying about marketing and having all the sleepless nights on top of it. So you can understand and when I sit down and go through all of that and we map it out on paper, you can see that is why I feel burnt out. Look at all of the jobs that I'm doing to run this law firm. So in order to really get yourself out of that situation, you really do need to build a team so that you can duplicate yourselves. And if you don't want to build a team, that's totally fine as well, but you're going to have to have lower expectations around how much work you can take on.
(18:23):
You're only one person and you're going to be at capacity a lot sooner than an employed solicitor. Does that make sense?
Tara (18:31):
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Caralee, one of the things that I've picked up or heard from some of the members in the TT Precedents Club who are also part of your scalable law programme is they firstly got really clear on the type of business they want. Is it a lifestyle business while their kids are little and the priority is flexibility and being able to go to the school whenever they, Mother's Day morning to eat and something at assembly and so- and-so's got a merit award and the sports carnival's on, or are they here to scale and get some serious growth? Yeah. And then that has informed their decisions and they've been really strategic about the type of help they've got. So if it is a lifestyle business, maybe they've just found somebody who comes in once a week or a few times a month and binds all their wills and does their safe custody scanning and it's not, okay, we're taking on like five employees or maybe it is we're taking on five employees and getting really strategic.
(19:40):
But I think it seems like with your programme, they've had the support to actually make a conscious strategic decision about how they expand rather than just randomly hiring people left, right, and centre?
Caralee (19:54):
A 100%. And I think this is where law firm owners don't spend much time and that's in that visionary.You're the law firm owner and you're the visionary of the firm. No one else is a visionary for your business except you. And so what does that mean? And so many times I hop on calls with clients and they're so busy in the weeds chasing their tail from day to day that they've spent no time thinking about what they actually want. They did initially when they were dreaming about their business and they were probably thinking, "I'm making all this money for someone else. Why don't I do it for myself and I can have more freedom?" But in the other business they worked in, they had a lot of support and their new business as a solo, you don't have that same support. So when you can actually step outside of all of the busyness and being in the weeds and spend time being strategic and really thinking, what do I want from this business over the next 12 months, over the next five years and probably up until I either sell it or retirement, what do I want this to look at look like?
(21:01):
And I think a lot of the time when people start their firm, they're so worried about, "Am I going to be able to replace my income?" That's their only goal that they really have and they then get busy and then they haven't had that time to really be strategic or think about where they're going. So without a compass, it's going to be really hard to find your way through the jungle, right? And so you need someone to either be a sherpa for you to light the way so that they can show you which direction to go or you might get there yourself, but you're going to get tangled along the way and there's a lot of pitfalls. So that's kind of what we do is really shine the light and show you, I've done it before, this is how you do it because otherwise it's hard.
(21:47):
It is hard.
Tara (21:48):
Yeah. And this is the thing, there's styles that we can turn up on down to try to make your firm more enjoyable and profitable for you. That's the whole point of this, right? So we've talked about resourcing and strategy systems, pricing is pricing one of them? I do wonder if- It's definitely one of them. You booked and busy. Is that a sign to increase your prices?
Caralee (22:18):
So pricing is definitely an issue. Sometimes I hop on calls with clients who have engaged us and I see straight away that they're simply not charging enough. And when you're your own boss, you sometimes just let things go. You're like, "Oh, I don't need to charge them for that. " Or, "Oh, it doesn't matter. It took me so much longer than it should have so I won't charge them," or whatever story we're telling ourselves. You've got to be really, really clear on your pricing and really stick to it because otherwise you're going to be the one really suffering, working ridiculous hours and not gaining the freedom and profit that you really wanted in the first place. Occasionally I come across a business and are pricing incredibly well and doing really well and the stress isn't the money. So if you're stressed about money, it might be that you're not pricing well enough.
(23:16):
And if you do the numbers and do the data, you'll be able to really have a clear idea and vision of what you can make yourself. So whether you're a fixed fee, which I know a lot of your people are, or whether you're hourly by the hour, you can make a plan on, okay, this is how many hours I need to be working a week in order to get this outcome. And then you need to also make sure that as the owner that you're not working five hours or more a day on delivery because you just don't have that same time. So we have to lower that down a little bit and then if you want to create a team, then that you have a different expectation for the team in terms of their ability to deliver because that's all they're doing. They're just delivering.
(24:06):
So yeah, pricing is really important and I think in those early stages of business like your person in the TT club, we're so desperate to make it work. We take on the wrong work, which we've talked about, but we also lower our price or do it super cheap and that's not a good strategy at all. You need to be making sure that you're pricing the same as the rest of the market and you need to make sure if you are fixed fee, you absolutely need to make sure that you still have an hourly rate attached to your name so that you can measure and make sure that you're charging that fixed fee out at the right price. And that's not something you would need to do on an ongoing basis, but you need to do it from time to time to check because legislation changes, things change.
(24:59):
We have to put additional work in as those things change and does that fixed fe still work in terms of how long this process is taking me? Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you're fixed fee or if you're an hourly rate, you still have a capacity and you should be able to produce as a senior associate lawyer a certain fe per day, which helps us work out then what we should be able to produce per month. And with your fixed fee work, sometimes people just aren't charging enough. So we need to make sure that's right.
Tara (25:38):
Yeah. I love that because as much as there's a bit of fixed fees calculated by vibes, you do have to make sure you're going to make enough money. I'm sure you've got resources like this in our estate planning pricing toolkit we've got a calculator where you put in what you're charging, how many matters you expect, what your overheads and fixed costs are and what it would cost for you if say you were sick and you had to hire somebody to come in and do the legal delivery so you can work out, okay, how much am I taking home at the end of the year and have I paid myself super and set aside my BAS money and my tax money and all of that stuff as well so that you can actually check, okay, maybe I call it the breakeven calculator so you can work out at least what your minimum floor price needs to be and then you can bring in your value pricing questions on top of that to reach your price.
(26:48):
But if you aren't even charging enough to meet your floor, it's going to be really uncomfortable and awful for you when you're doing a tax.
Caralee (26:58):
Yeah. And you're going to be working ridiculous hours to try and make ends meet basically. And so you've got to be really conscious of what you are charging and yeah we don't want to be charging you out essentially for a hundred bucks an hour. You're a lawyer
(27:15):
And when you were previously working at your previous FIM, you were charged out at 450, 500, you're now a principal and our fees, you should be able to get around 550, 600 an hour. And I know for estate planning lawyers who are doing it well, they have some of the highest and best hourly rates if you break down their fixed fee to the time that it takes them to produce say a testamentary trust. So it's really important that you know those numbers. What your utilisation rate is, I think a lot of lawyers don't understand what the utilisation rate is, but it's so important that you're not for yourself and then when you start employing people, because what we're essentially doing is we are selling our time and expertise for a fee and so we need to make sure that fee is profitable. Otherwise, what's the point in being in business?
Tara (28:12):
Yeah. So Caralee and I are giving you permission to raise your prices when you run your own firm, nobody tells you what to do, but we are giving you permission to go and look at whether it's time to raise your prices.
Caralee (28:29):
And sometimes Tara, it feels really uncomfortable.
Tara (28:32):
Oh, absolutely.
Caralee (28:34):
It feels really uncomfortable for me as well because it all comes down to a whole lot of money issues we have, it comes down to our own value and how we view ourselves. It comes down to our upbringing and childhood. It's a whole mindset issue that we need to overcome and work through often. And yeah, we really can struggle with it. So that's totally normal, but you've got to feel the uncomfortableness and the fear and do it anyway.
Tara (29:07):
And for anybody who's going, "Oh, I think I do need to raise my prices." Episode 38 of the podcast is all about signs. It's time for a price rise and how to do the price rise or implement it with integrity in a way, the communication piece and all of that as well. So go and listen to that episode if what we're saying is resonating.
Caralee (29:31):
A 100%.
Tara (29:32):
Caralee, you're talking about utilisation rates and you love data, don't you?
Caralee (29:40):
I love data. I'm not naturally a data type person. I don't think a lot of lawyers are. Most lawyers that I hop on the phone to, I ask them, "How many initial inquiries are you getting? What's your return on investment of your marketing? What's your utilisation rate?" They don't know where Any of that. I didn't used to know any of that either, but the more you delve into your data, and this is why I love it, the more you delve into your data on marketing, on performance, including your own and on your finance, the more you are going to learn and be able to tweak and improve. Otherwise, you're just guessing. So if you're worrying about, I don't know how to get more clients through the door, well, what's working for you right now? And you might say, oh, this is working, but how do you know that that's working?
(30:37):
If you don't have data, you don't actually know. So we've got to rely on the actual data and work out that those things are working for us and then we can scal that and do more of that. So I absolutely love data and in my law firm and in scalable law, we run a weekly scorecard so we know exactly how many inquiries versus how many appointments are made versus how many conversions versus what's the utilisation rate right down to all the other important numbers that are important to running a business. So profit, work in progress invoice, receipted, all of those things as well. So it's important to know that. And in real time, you might have a great accountant, but that is not in real time. That is looking back into the past, which is not going to help you and it doesn't help you with your marketing and those numbers either.
(31:33):
So it's really important that you have a really good data strategy that will absolutely move your business forward.
Tara (31:39):
Caralee, I have seen firsthand how scalable law has helped so many members of the TT Precedents Club. Can you talk a little bit more about how the programme works and how it can help somebody? And if you're a year or two in, is this programme the right next step if you are sort of feeling like you're floundering and it's not giving you the life that you hoped when you set up the firm?
Caralee (32:09):
Yes. So our goal is to help with more profit and more freedom because we want to make sure that law firm owners aren't burning out and that they do have a great life and having extra money and it helps with stress, it helps with all sorts of things and having extra freedom, that's all about you spending more time doing the things you love and with the people you love. So those are two really important things to us at Scalable Law. And for most of our clients, those are two really important things as well. So the first thing that we do is we work out where are you right now and where do you want to head into the future? What does this look like for you for the next 12 months, for the next five years? What are your dreams and aspirations for this business and how's it going to bring more to your life and the life of your family as well?
(33:02):
So that's where we start and then we really map out a whole strategy on this is where your firm is now and this is how we can get there. So we make sure we've got the right people in the right seats. If you're not wanting to grow beyond yourself, we help you to make sure that you've got the right efficiencies so that you're not totally in the business seven days a week. We need to make sure that we've got a whole lot of things in place to really help you. But generally speaking, we do help people who want to have at least one or two people helping them out because otherwise life is going to be really hard if you're trying to struggle on your own doing it because you're just one person and you're trying to do too many things, which I think is one of the issues, having an expectation that you're a superhero when you're just human and you've only got so many hours in the day.
(33:57):
But yeah, we help you to map all of that out and what that looks like and really using data to help you to see that if you do this, this will be the outcome. If you do that, this will be the outcome. And then we start putting systems and proceses in place so that your firm is a whole lot more efficient. You will know all of your data and numbers every single week and you'll be able to manage your firm from afar. So one of the things that was so awesome about my law firm is I only worked about 10 hours a week in it. I made a lot of profit. So I had a lot of freedom and a lot of profit and I kept my finger on the pulse all the time with having a weekly scorecard. So those are the sorts of things that we implement.
(34:42):
If marketing is your problem, we will start helping you get more work in the door. If building a team is where you're struggling, we help with that. Or if operations and getting your firm automated is the issue, we help with that, or it might be all three. I tend to find that you've either sort of got a marketing issue not being able to get enough work in the door so that you can not stress about money and grow and then moving into efficiencies, operations, all of that type of thing. So we help with all of sort of the holistic view of the business.
Tara (35:18):
Yeah, I love that. And I have really seen the transformation in our members over the last five years or so from exactly, as you said, booked and busy and burnt out to going on overseas trips a couple of times a year and having a team they trust. And it has been such a joy to watch that transformation. I know from my own burnout experience that the idea of finding time to shake everything up and do all these new things and even just to learn what I'm meant to be doing can feel so overwhelming when you're already overwhelmed. So where do you even start if you're like, "What do you mean? I'm already working seven days a week. There's no more hours in the day."
Caralee (36:08):
Yeah. I think once we do the strategy, we can really look at where we can steal time back and also what the priorities are because you might be really burnt out and struggling, but you might be going around in circles and areas of the business that aren't actually going to move your business forward. It might be really simple things that can help you buy back time, like putting your prices up, for example, but sometimes you just need someone else to tell you that that's what you need to do because if you can put your prices up, it can mean that you can do less work so that you can then spend more time working on the business. So in Accelerator, our programme accelerator, we expect you to do at least one hour a week's work on your law firm. So you're moving out of technician into really working as a CEO in the business.
(37:02):
If you're not prepared to do that, then you're really not going to get ahead in your business. You've got to move from being a lawyer into being a leader and a CEO of the business, unless you're prepared to move into that and make some changes because what got you here to this point in your business won't get you there. You're going to have to make some changes. There's just no other way around it and that can be really scary, but that's the way that's the way forward. And even in my own business, you get to that next level and then you know you're going to have to do something different and tackle something differently to get to that next stage and it can feel really scary.
Tara (37:50):
I hear you with it feeling scary, but also in a programme like Scalables, you're not floundering, figuring it out on your own.That's what's scary sitting there going, "Something is not working, but I don't know where to start. I can't see it because I'm too close to everything. I've never run a law firm before." Whereas if you have the roadmap and the guidance of what to do and what here's the low hanging fruit and here's how you even work out where to start, you just make that change so much faster than doing it on your own.
Caralee (38:31):
And it's definitely like the analogy that I gave before where you're in a jungle and you're trying to find your way to the top of the mountain on your own and you're not on the track and you're having to cut down weeds as you go and work it all out versus there's a path and if you're following the path, it's already cleared for you. So that's the difference between really having a coach and doing it on your own. And like you said, Tara, when we're in it, we're too close to it sometimes and sometimes the answer is actually sitting right in front of us, we just can't see it. So it takes someone else, an outsider to come in and be able to say, "Okay, this is the thing that's the most urgent." We always work on our next best steps over the next six weeks.
(39:21):
So we've always got what are your next best steps over the next six weeks and also just doing it in bite-sized pieces because I think sometimes it can feel so huge and overwhelming and when we're in that zone we end up doing nothing because it's too hard. Whereas if you've got someone going, "Okay, this is the one bite I need you to take, just get this thing done." We naturally have too many balls in the air and it's hectic, whereas we just need the one ball but which on and so that's sort of how we help you to move forward.
Tara (39:56):
And also can we address, I guess, the elephant in the room about how scary and uncomfortable it can feel like spending money on your business. I've been going through this recently with my husband, Jared. Caralee, you know, we've been running shoulder physio education for like six or seven years, but he's been doing his PhD that whole time. So it's sort of just been a little side gig and he's finished his PhD and going all in on that business now and I'm like, "We don't need to run it on the smell of an oily rag like we've done for the last years." Let's, in his case, work with a digital marketing agency, the same people that I use are my digital in Brisbane. And Jared has an international audience and it's like, how do we reach them? And we need some professional help on the marketing front.
(41:03):
And Jared's going, "Oh, well, this feels like a lot to spend a monthly retainer." He's like, "I've never spent this much before." And I'm like, "We're serious about this. We don't have time to waste. We need results. Let's just do it properly instead of us faffing about for a year and then getting into this, making this decision anyway." So yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about that side of things? I can help-
Caralee (41:33):
Well, you're in business to create two measurable things, which is more profit or more money in your family's bank account and some more freedom so that you can do the things that you want to do. So those are two things that you can measure. And if you're going to invest money into coaching, for example, we want to make sure that those returns are there for you. So that's why you need a data strategy as well, because we need to make sure that you've got those goals in place and that month by month you are increasing your revenue and your profit and that you're increasing your freedom as well. So those things are super measurable and that's really what we're focusing on and you set your goals in the beginning and we really start building really quickly in the first 90 days you will have already reached some of your goals.
(42:27):
So if you want fast results, sometimes you've got to pay to get those fast results and not only do you get the tools, but I think for some of us, I'm one of these people, is you need accountability, especially when you're busy in the weeds and clients are yelling at you for their next thing and so you're dealing with that. But if you've got a coach who's saying, "We've got a meeting next Thursday at 10 o'clock and I need this thing done before then," it will get done versus those things don't necessarily seem like the most important thing versus the client who needs their thing done, the accountability. And then of course you've got a community of law firm owners who are all in the same position as you working on the same things. Some are a little bit more ahead and when you are with people who are a little more ahead than you, it gives you so much oomph and hope.
(43:24):
It's like being behind a jet stream of a plane where you're then all just flying in formation and it really does help you to see what's possible for you as well because I think that's that mindset stuff is that when we don't see what's possible, we don't quite get there. And so being in a programme like this, the investment really is something that can help you to move forward. And when you're paying money, you turn up so you keep yourself accountable as well. So yeah, it's really a no-brainer when it comes to, "I've got these goals, but how do I get there?"
Tara (44:05):
Yeah. I know this episode is almost starting to sound like an ad, but I promise there's no paid partnership. I just wanted Cara Lee to come on and share what she does in scalable law because I want all of you listening to be living your best life as a lawyer and to have profitable, enjoyable law firms where you're changing people's lives, getting the estate planning done in a very heartled and deliberate way. I want you to just be able to not be burnt out. I have been burnt out myself and it's a really long road back so I don't want you guys in that situation. I've seen from a lot of the members in our TT Precedents Club who I've been watching their businesses from before they've joined Scalable to then joining it. And I aspire on all what you're doing and see when you hire people because you bring them into the plus one TT Precedents Club and I see what you're doing on your socials and when we catch up and I can see the transformation and like my first comment on that post in the Facebook group was go check out Caralee's stuff because this is what you're doing day in, day out helping law firm owners.
(45:34):
So I wanted to bring you on, you very graciously said yes to doing another podcast episode with me just to explain it a little bit more. So yeah, I really hope if you're listening and you are feeling like you're starting to get overwhelmed regularly about what's going on in your firm, that this has given you some inspiration and ideas about one of the pathways out there to get back on track.
Caralee (46:02):
Yeah. And sometimes people, law firm owners are only a few key strategies away from actually being in a position where they are feeling so much better about everything and it's just knowing what strategy and what thing to implement. And sometimes those things aren't even hard at all and are not even sacrificial things. And so it's just that sometimes we've learned how to work harder rather than smarter or we've been working in a firm. We then do things the same way, but that firm had its own struggles that maybe we didn't know about. We have not learned how to run a law firm. We've learned how to be a great lawyer and now you're on the tools learning how to run your own firm and it's not a natural thing and there's so much to learn.
Tara (46:55):
Caralee, you've been so generous with your guidance and time today. Is there anything else you wanted to leave our listeners with before we wrap it up?
Caralee (47:05):
No, I just encourage everyone to be really open in the TT Club with the great group of people that you've got in there because that can really help you to realise you're not alone and that there is support there. And also you can jump on a call with us. We offer a free growth call to see if we can help you at all. I've also got a whole lot of other really great resources that can help which are free. There's a book on my website and then there's also a roadmap which can really help you out. So you can see where you're at and some of the things that you might want to implement next to move to that next stage of profit and freedom. So those are a couple of things that you could go and do if you're not ready for a call yet.
Tara (47:52):
Thank you, Caralee. We'll put the link for the call with your team in the show notes for anybody who is thinking that could be the next step for them. If you can't get enough of Caralee, she also came on the podcast for episode 20, more about proactive unlocking your firm's potential. So similar themes, but probably more about scaling rather than getting on track. So that's a really great listen as well.
Caralee (48:20):
That was a while ago now.
Tara (48:22):
I know we're up to. I don't even know what number episode. Almost a hundred. That's a great question. Two years, I think. Yeah. Wow. Time flies when you're having fun. It does. It does. Yeah. No, we're almost, maybe not quite two years. We're almost up to episode near the hundreds. Yeah, awesome. Yeah. But I'm so grateful for you coming today and sharing what you've learned. You've got so much knowledge to tap into and I thought it was just a reminder to our listeners about Scalable Law and what a great resource that is. So we'll wrap it up there. Thank you everybody for listening and we'll see you next week.
Caralee (49:04):
Thank you. Bye.
